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	<title>Comments for the SENTinel</title>
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	<description>Thoughts on Gospel, Mission, Culture, Innovation, &#38; Campus Ministry</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 20:03:28 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on The Hidden Costs of Support Raising by William (Bill) Westfall</title>
		<link>http://stevelutz.wordpress.com/2009/11/24/the-hidden-costs-of-support-raising/#comment-557</link>
		<dc:creator>William (Bill) Westfall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 20:03:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stevelutz.wordpress.com/?p=527#comment-557</guid>
		<description>Beth, good point.  Whenever I approach a potential new supporter, I do so with information in hand on why financial support of a ministry is biblical.  MANY people have never really done the research on giving.  Educating the Church on SR will yield positive results.

Also, one other comment, Steve.  It seems that in these tough economic times, the necessity of SR is not going anywhere for some time.  My opinion is that the years/decades ahead are going to be even tougher in terms of finding the necessary support.  Therefore, this discussion needs to gain momentum, and we need to find creative ways (as you are encouraging) to find the funding for ministry.

The more we can work together on this topic, utilizing the strengths of others, the more successful we will be.  And, quite frankly, working together is typically God&#039;s preferred method. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beth, good point.  Whenever I approach a potential new supporter, I do so with information in hand on why financial support of a ministry is biblical.  MANY people have never really done the research on giving.  Educating the Church on SR will yield positive results.</p>
<p>Also, one other comment, Steve.  It seems that in these tough economic times, the necessity of SR is not going anywhere for some time.  My opinion is that the years/decades ahead are going to be even tougher in terms of finding the necessary support.  Therefore, this discussion needs to gain momentum, and we need to find creative ways (as you are encouraging) to find the funding for ministry.</p>
<p>The more we can work together on this topic, utilizing the strengths of others, the more successful we will be.  And, quite frankly, working together is typically God&#8217;s preferred method. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on The Hidden Costs of Support Raising by Beth</title>
		<link>http://stevelutz.wordpress.com/2009/11/24/the-hidden-costs-of-support-raising/#comment-556</link>
		<dc:creator>Beth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:29:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stevelutz.wordpress.com/?p=527#comment-556</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m really enjoying this thread!

Steve, to clarify my earlier point - I didn&#039;t explain well that I was thinking less personally and more in terms of &quot;reshaping the landscape&quot; of support-raising. 

As a relatively young person, I can&#039;t compare to previous generations and whether this is always the way things have been or not, but the general materialistic trends of my generation and the lack of biblical grounding in our approach to handling finances and money seem poised to be a major influencer on the viability and structure of SR.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m really enjoying this thread!</p>
<p>Steve, to clarify my earlier point &#8211; I didn&#8217;t explain well that I was thinking less personally and more in terms of &#8220;reshaping the landscape&#8221; of support-raising. </p>
<p>As a relatively young person, I can&#8217;t compare to previous generations and whether this is always the way things have been or not, but the general materialistic trends of my generation and the lack of biblical grounding in our approach to handling finances and money seem poised to be a major influencer on the viability and structure of SR.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Hidden Costs of Support Raising by William (Bill) Westfall</title>
		<link>http://stevelutz.wordpress.com/2009/11/24/the-hidden-costs-of-support-raising/#comment-555</link>
		<dc:creator>William (Bill) Westfall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:24:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stevelutz.wordpress.com/?p=527#comment-555</guid>
		<description>I agree, Steve, that SR is not for everyone...Benson is right, a church-based CM in the south is doomed if she is expected to SR, especially if her contacts are limited.

And, yes, I agree again, there are some very capable college minister types out there that for varying reasons lack the &quot;skill set&quot; to be successful in SR.  In these cases, as you have recognized, we need to get creative with the way we raise funds.  

I&#039;d like to see more ministries develop SR teams, where existing supporters are actually doing the &quot;work&quot; of gathering new supporters.  This gets current supporters actively involved in the ministry, and serves to foster a true &quot;partnership.&quot;

I&#039;d also encourage campus ministers to do research on locating funding from grants.  This is something I just started looking into this year.  Already, I have found multiple foundations in the Boise area that are interested in funding campus projects.  Often times, these sources are very significant.

Good questions, Steve.  Thanks for the conversations!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, Steve, that SR is not for everyone&#8230;Benson is right, a church-based CM in the south is doomed if she is expected to SR, especially if her contacts are limited.</p>
<p>And, yes, I agree again, there are some very capable college minister types out there that for varying reasons lack the &#8220;skill set&#8221; to be successful in SR.  In these cases, as you have recognized, we need to get creative with the way we raise funds.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to see more ministries develop SR teams, where existing supporters are actually doing the &#8220;work&#8221; of gathering new supporters.  This gets current supporters actively involved in the ministry, and serves to foster a true &#8220;partnership.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;d also encourage campus ministers to do research on locating funding from grants.  This is something I just started looking into this year.  Already, I have found multiple foundations in the Boise area that are interested in funding campus projects.  Often times, these sources are very significant.</p>
<p>Good questions, Steve.  Thanks for the conversations!</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Hidden Costs of Support Raising by Steve Lutz</title>
		<link>http://stevelutz.wordpress.com/2009/11/24/the-hidden-costs-of-support-raising/#comment-554</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Lutz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:53:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stevelutz.wordpress.com/?p=527#comment-554</guid>
		<description>Bill--thanks for the input. I don&#039;t disagree with you that SR is ministry. That&#039;s something that I and many colleagues actively cultivate with our communications. Hopefully using words like &quot;partner&quot; goes beyond semantics and I believe many of them feel a deep sense of investment, ownership, and joy in what God is doing on campus. 

Hopefully you hear me saying that I&#039;m not down on SR completely. I think it&#039;s biblical, I think it&#039;s necessary, and I think there&#039;s much viability left in it. But we need to take a hard look at our methodology and expectations going forward. You say &quot;SR is not for everyone,&quot; and I&#039;m trying to get into the who/what/when/where/why of that. 

But let me interact a bit with some other things you said: 

Why is SR an essential part of the campus minister&#039;s job description? As Benson points out, it&#039;s not for many campus ministers, esp. if they&#039;re church-based and in the south. Nor is it for many other people in ministry, including youth pastors. 

I&#039;ll stick by my statement that we are losing people to support raising, because they may be qualified in other respects, and could continue in their capacity were it not for the $$$. Need I point out that many former campus ministers transition to other *ministry* jobs with steady salaries? 

I fear that our present system of SR is becoming some elite, Navy SEALS merit badge, ruling out lots of otherwise qualified college ministers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill&#8211;thanks for the input. I don&#8217;t disagree with you that SR is ministry. That&#8217;s something that I and many colleagues actively cultivate with our communications. Hopefully using words like &#8220;partner&#8221; goes beyond semantics and I believe many of them feel a deep sense of investment, ownership, and joy in what God is doing on campus. </p>
<p>Hopefully you hear me saying that I&#8217;m not down on SR completely. I think it&#8217;s biblical, I think it&#8217;s necessary, and I think there&#8217;s much viability left in it. But we need to take a hard look at our methodology and expectations going forward. You say &#8220;SR is not for everyone,&#8221; and I&#8217;m trying to get into the who/what/when/where/why of that. </p>
<p>But let me interact a bit with some other things you said: </p>
<p>Why is SR an essential part of the campus minister&#8217;s job description? As Benson points out, it&#8217;s not for many campus ministers, esp. if they&#8217;re church-based and in the south. Nor is it for many other people in ministry, including youth pastors. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll stick by my statement that we are losing people to support raising, because they may be qualified in other respects, and could continue in their capacity were it not for the $$$. Need I point out that many former campus ministers transition to other *ministry* jobs with steady salaries? </p>
<p>I fear that our present system of SR is becoming some elite, Navy SEALS merit badge, ruling out lots of otherwise qualified college ministers.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Hidden Costs of Support Raising by William (Bill) Westfall</title>
		<link>http://stevelutz.wordpress.com/2009/11/24/the-hidden-costs-of-support-raising/#comment-553</link>
		<dc:creator>William (Bill) Westfall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:15:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stevelutz.wordpress.com/?p=527#comment-553</guid>
		<description>I posted the following on Benson&#039;s site, and will post it here as well.  I think our attitude surrounding support raising is often skewed.

Looking at your three bullet points, Steve, in the original post, I&#039;d like to assert that we&#039;re not losing campus ministers to support raising; rather, support raising is a part of the job description and an effective form of ministry in itself.
_______
This is a topic that certainly is worthy of our discussion, and brainstorming.

I am enabled, financially, to do campus ministry full-time through the generosity of many churches and individuals. Prior to being a 100% support-based campus minister, I was a 100% support-based missionary to Africa. All together, I’ve been doing the support raising thing for 11 years now.

I’ll go on record…I love being 100% support-based. I’ll admit though, I have my days when life is not so good, but that is usually because my focus is out of whack. When I view support raising the way it should be viewed, then all of life is well.

There are at least two traps into which we can fall.

Trap #1: Not viewing support raising as actual ministry.

Support raising is a very important part of my ministry, it is not something I do in addition to ministry. I am not only a minister to college students, but I am also a minister to many individuals, and a few churches, who support college ministry. Forgetting this truth leads frustration with the time spent on support raising.

Time and time again I have seen that the things that are happening on campus (or in the far away space of Turkana, Kenya) are inspiring for the people who support our service. They see, through us, how God is at work, and it encourages them and motivates them to live more fully for God. I ABSOLUTELY LOVE this aspect of my ministry.

Trap #2: Not trusting God to do what He’s promised to do.

God is the one responsible for, and in control of, raising my support…not me. That being said, I do have to do my part.

I think I’m a pretty decent support raiser, though I need to be careful not to take any glory from God. He does it all! He raises up our support, daily! But I am willing to do my part. I work hard, I communicate vision, and I truly enjoy meeting new people and asking them to be a part of what God is doing through us.

Support raising is not for everyone. But, with the right attitude, and not lacking the call of God, we can find success through it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I posted the following on Benson&#8217;s site, and will post it here as well.  I think our attitude surrounding support raising is often skewed.</p>
<p>Looking at your three bullet points, Steve, in the original post, I&#8217;d like to assert that we&#8217;re not losing campus ministers to support raising; rather, support raising is a part of the job description and an effective form of ministry in itself.<br />
_______<br />
This is a topic that certainly is worthy of our discussion, and brainstorming.</p>
<p>I am enabled, financially, to do campus ministry full-time through the generosity of many churches and individuals. Prior to being a 100% support-based campus minister, I was a 100% support-based missionary to Africa. All together, I’ve been doing the support raising thing for 11 years now.</p>
<p>I’ll go on record…I love being 100% support-based. I’ll admit though, I have my days when life is not so good, but that is usually because my focus is out of whack. When I view support raising the way it should be viewed, then all of life is well.</p>
<p>There are at least two traps into which we can fall.</p>
<p>Trap #1: Not viewing support raising as actual ministry.</p>
<p>Support raising is a very important part of my ministry, it is not something I do in addition to ministry. I am not only a minister to college students, but I am also a minister to many individuals, and a few churches, who support college ministry. Forgetting this truth leads frustration with the time spent on support raising.</p>
<p>Time and time again I have seen that the things that are happening on campus (or in the far away space of Turkana, Kenya) are inspiring for the people who support our service. They see, through us, how God is at work, and it encourages them and motivates them to live more fully for God. I ABSOLUTELY LOVE this aspect of my ministry.</p>
<p>Trap #2: Not trusting God to do what He’s promised to do.</p>
<p>God is the one responsible for, and in control of, raising my support…not me. That being said, I do have to do my part.</p>
<p>I think I’m a pretty decent support raiser, though I need to be careful not to take any glory from God. He does it all! He raises up our support, daily! But I am willing to do my part. I work hard, I communicate vision, and I truly enjoy meeting new people and asking them to be a part of what God is doing through us.</p>
<p>Support raising is not for everyone. But, with the right attitude, and not lacking the call of God, we can find success through it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Hidden Costs of Support Raising by Marc</title>
		<link>http://stevelutz.wordpress.com/2009/11/24/the-hidden-costs-of-support-raising/#comment-552</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 06:39:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stevelutz.wordpress.com/?p=527#comment-552</guid>
		<description>Speaking of the Apostle Paul, he raised support from people he ministered to. Obviously college students can&#039;t support a college minister/entire staff, but if a college minister is truly helping change lives with the gospel, alumni might be a natural source of funding. They might be hard to keep in contact with, but hopefully if something spiritual and life-changing is happening in the lives of students today, they should be motivated to give back when they start making the paychecks tomorrow. It probably won&#039;t get anyone to 100% and many will probably move on, but maybe a sizable chunk? Perhaps inviting alumni back for an event or keeping an alumni newsletter can cultivate a ripe environment for giving. College students are our future doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc., right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of the Apostle Paul, he raised support from people he ministered to. Obviously college students can&#8217;t support a college minister/entire staff, but if a college minister is truly helping change lives with the gospel, alumni might be a natural source of funding. They might be hard to keep in contact with, but hopefully if something spiritual and life-changing is happening in the lives of students today, they should be motivated to give back when they start making the paychecks tomorrow. It probably won&#8217;t get anyone to 100% and many will probably move on, but maybe a sizable chunk? Perhaps inviting alumni back for an event or keeping an alumni newsletter can cultivate a ripe environment for giving. College students are our future doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc., right?</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Hidden Costs of Support Raising by Benson Hines</title>
		<link>http://stevelutz.wordpress.com/2009/11/24/the-hidden-costs-of-support-raising/#comment-551</link>
		<dc:creator>Benson Hines</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 04:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stevelutz.wordpress.com/?p=527#comment-551</guid>
		<description>Specifically on the question of asking for funds for ministry vs. asking for funds for salary:

This was actually another thing that came up in my conversations with Campus Crusade NE staff this weekend. I almost put it in my post, and it is a good idea - their suggestion was both, because different donors are up for different things.

Some &quot;big donors&quot; are more likely to give a large amount for ministry budget (but not salary). Likewise, people who give regularly at a certain level might be open to giving a bit more for a one-time cause.

So yes, I think some people do it, at least in Campus Crusade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Specifically on the question of asking for funds for ministry vs. asking for funds for salary:</p>
<p>This was actually another thing that came up in my conversations with Campus Crusade NE staff this weekend. I almost put it in my post, and it is a good idea &#8211; their suggestion was both, because different donors are up for different things.</p>
<p>Some &#8220;big donors&#8221; are more likely to give a large amount for ministry budget (but not salary). Likewise, people who give regularly at a certain level might be open to giving a bit more for a one-time cause.</p>
<p>So yes, I think some people do it, at least in Campus Crusade.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Hidden Costs of Support Raising by Benson Hines</title>
		<link>http://stevelutz.wordpress.com/2009/11/24/the-hidden-costs-of-support-raising/#comment-550</link>
		<dc:creator>Benson Hines</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 04:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stevelutz.wordpress.com/?p=527#comment-550</guid>
		<description>Excited that people are responding on this!

As far as the local-business model, I think it&#039;s got HUGE potential. However, people are often immediately turned off by the assumption that being supported by some &quot;venture&quot; requires that THEY run the venture. What if we found ventures that were strong enough to support the staff that ran them?

It may even be that entrepreneurs rise up to help college ministries accomplish this - coming from the outside with a good model. I dunno. And, for some college ministers, running the business themselves will be a good fit.

And for many, they may oversee even as business-savvy students or grads get something started.

And yes, I did support myself in West Texas through such a venture. I am not an &quot;entrepreneur-type,&quot; but that certainly helped me ponder this possibility for others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excited that people are responding on this!</p>
<p>As far as the local-business model, I think it&#8217;s got HUGE potential. However, people are often immediately turned off by the assumption that being supported by some &#8220;venture&#8221; requires that THEY run the venture. What if we found ventures that were strong enough to support the staff that ran them?</p>
<p>It may even be that entrepreneurs rise up to help college ministries accomplish this &#8211; coming from the outside with a good model. I dunno. And, for some college ministers, running the business themselves will be a good fit.</p>
<p>And for many, they may oversee even as business-savvy students or grads get something started.</p>
<p>And yes, I did support myself in West Texas through such a venture. I am not an &#8220;entrepreneur-type,&#8221; but that certainly helped me ponder this possibility for others.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Hidden Costs of Support Raising by Steve Lutz</title>
		<link>http://stevelutz.wordpress.com/2009/11/24/the-hidden-costs-of-support-raising/#comment-549</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Lutz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 02:10:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stevelutz.wordpress.com/?p=527#comment-549</guid>
		<description>Beth--thanks for your comment. You&#039;re not alone in finding you need to make the case for giving. 
My advice is that you cultivate supporters among people who you know give to others, and among churches that you know are generous and supportive of missions. If they&#039;ve demonstrated a willingness to give in the past, they&#039;re more likely to give to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beth&#8211;thanks for your comment. You&#8217;re not alone in finding you need to make the case for giving.<br />
My advice is that you cultivate supporters among people who you know give to others, and among churches that you know are generous and supportive of missions. If they&#8217;ve demonstrated a willingness to give in the past, they&#8217;re more likely to give to you.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Hidden Costs of Support Raising by Steve Lutz</title>
		<link>http://stevelutz.wordpress.com/2009/11/24/the-hidden-costs-of-support-raising/#comment-548</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Lutz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 02:04:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stevelutz.wordpress.com/?p=527#comment-548</guid>
		<description>Bryan--thanks for your thoughts! 
Completely agree on the strategic nature of reaching this college student missional people group. 
And good point about who the SR system &#039;rewards.&#039;  I&#039;ve seen people who became Christians in college absolutely struggle in SR, because they don&#039;t have a large network to draw on. 
Interesting thoughts on Paul--did you write more in-depth on that anywhere? Just to be clear to anyone reading--I&#039;m not against traditional support-raising. It&#039;s obviously biblical. You&#039;re right--he was flexible in his methodology, which included how he got his funding. 
Not sure about the comic book idea, and I&#039;d hesitate to ever use Chick tracts as a precedent, but I like the idea of seed-planting for the harvest. That&#039;s why we need conversations like this--to develop and elevate our field of ministry. Thanks for your comments!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bryan&#8211;thanks for your thoughts!<br />
Completely agree on the strategic nature of reaching this college student missional people group.<br />
And good point about who the SR system &#8216;rewards.&#8217;  I&#8217;ve seen people who became Christians in college absolutely struggle in SR, because they don&#8217;t have a large network to draw on.<br />
Interesting thoughts on Paul&#8211;did you write more in-depth on that anywhere? Just to be clear to anyone reading&#8211;I&#8217;m not against traditional support-raising. It&#8217;s obviously biblical. You&#8217;re right&#8211;he was flexible in his methodology, which included how he got his funding.<br />
Not sure about the comic book idea, and I&#8217;d hesitate to ever use Chick tracts as a precedent, but I like the idea of seed-planting for the harvest. That&#8217;s why we need conversations like this&#8211;to develop and elevate our field of ministry. Thanks for your comments!</p>
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